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Welcome back!! We are Baruch HaShem zoche to start round 2 (save Gav who is presenting in 3 weeks from now). I am very excited for everyone to whop out great Torah again, it's not easy but it's worth it. In the long run (and even the short) everyone will be thrilled that they were part of this, I can guarantee that.
As always comments are very helpful for us all and are great for engagement for the Chabura.
Yonah,
Thank you for the time you spent being learning the sugya and preparing the chabura from which we all certainly derived new knowledge and benefit.
Some questions:
> Does the idea (klal, geder, ta'am) of מפני הרגל עבירה apply both to the איסור of making milchig or fleishig bread AND to the creation of having or eating the bread?
> What IS the status or significance of something (in this case the bread) that has the שם חפצה דאיסורה ?
> Are we to understand this idea of מפני הרגל עבירה as a reason of historical interest which we don't really have the "right" or privilege of interpreting, and which does NOT create any flexibility in an איסור which…
Amazong Yon x2!
1. Maybe thr Rif holds need heker bec rven if true tht youll femember in short time, perhaps hes worroed youll leave bread over or not end up esting soon after bake it etc...(kind of like you said, jist pointimg put that can be tht he disagreees w rashi about tht and not that you will forget soon after).
2. my only issue w pshat you said in rashba is that you cld jist say nake sure its a siman that wont have that issue, die milk bread w blue food coloring etc ...not mistaber tht point is we are ok w siman but prob is maybe ull make siman that doesnt do the trick...
2a…
Yonah,
This was a very interesting and informative Chabura. I, like you, was under the impression that it was only asur to make fleishig bread. Thank you for clarifying that, and thank you again for the insightful chabura!
A few questions:
Menashe: If someone is in a place in which it is normal for the people of that city/country to eat that bread with a certain food (Milchig or fleishig), but where you live (your city/country) it is not normal, would that also apply? Or, do we say that when you are there you can’t eat it but it can be eaten in other places? Or, do we say that the majority rules, so if the other country has more…
Yonah thank you for this informative and intriguing Chabura. As you said, I think you gave us a nice "picture" of the Sugya. I can tell that you had lots more to say, maybe one day we will get it all out of you!!
A few comments:
· The Gemara said you cannot smear the oven with something fleishigs because that would lead to a michshol aren’t our ovens fleishigs sometimes, or at least our microwaves? I don't have a Sign on mine saying which is fleshigs and which is milchigs, should I? How are we allowed to have keilim which can be milchihg or fleshig without clear simanim?
· I know you mentioned this for a secod bu…
The following are comments from Yonah's reviewer - R' Aryeh Greenfeld Shlit"a.
A very specail Yungerman who learns in Rabbi Rand's Kollel in Far Rockaway.
Thanks, Yonah for the crystal clear and thought provoking chabura.
Here are some thoughts:
Is there a problem having milchig or fleishig salt?
Perhaps the Rif would not agree to Rashi that small is good enough to avoid issur, because it doesn't directly address other people who aren't aware of the bread's status, whereas making a heker can help for anyone coming in contact with the bread.
Perhaps the Rashba's combination is that he really requires a heker, however since often a heker will be something with no intrinsic meaning, like an x, he will…