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Welcome to Toraos 2.2!
In this chabura you will be introduced (or given much clarity) about the "din" of the Avos - were they Jewish? Were the obligated in the the Mitzvos etc.?
Laivy really gave a great overview, covering many of the opinions and explaining their views. You may want to take notes for next year:)
Abba, Thank you for taking the time to listen to the chabura and for calling me to discuss your questions, points, observation in addition to writing them up on the blog!
-To answer your first question, I think it is a great point! I think the answer may be along the lines of understanding how bris mila applies to men differently than women and why men get the physical symbol of the bris but weather or not the meaning of the bris is applied to women that are Avraham descendants and also get Eretz Yisroel and will follow the torah etc that the bris represents... (See my reply to Shua who asked the same question). Great Question!
-To your last…
Thanks Shua..
-Good clarification about the tzitizis.
-Abba asked me the same question about Mila, it is possible to say that it was given to them as well as Jews to be sure their sons get a bris and perhaps it is not the act of the bris itself but the concept or the bris and perhaps then it applies to the women as well. The idea of the bris on men is the physical symbol reminder of the greater concept of the bris. The men may need the physical reminder of the relationship with HaShem more than women but the bris in its concept is applicable to both? But as I t old Abba, I thin this is a…
Firstly, thank you for your kind words, and more importantly you pitch for everyone to get involved. You won’t ever regret it; I can guarantee that. Not בעולם הזה and of course not it עולם הבא.
I just want to clarify - the point you mentioned about wearing Tzitzis. I understood that that point is used as an aswer to the quesiton: The way they were able to keep Shabbos was by wearing Tzitzis, because this way they were safe either way - if they are Jewish all is good, and they are being shomer Shabbos and doing the Mitzva of Tzitzis. If however, they are not Jewish then by virtue of wearing Tzitzis outside they are carrying because fo…
Laivy,
Thank you for opening our eyes to this nuanced ענין.
Ø Although I realize that there is some inconsistency in trying to understand a רש''י by using an explanation of תוספות , I nevertheless wonder about explaining גירות as reference to getting a מילה, in the context of the רש''י that you quoted from לך לך which explains that אברהם מגייר את האנשים, ושרה מגייר הנשים .
Ø Ultimately, it seems to me, from my shamefully uneducated, “ba’al habatish” perspective that within the technical and conceptual explanations of our חז''ל there is a subtle, nuanced, emes-dik understanding of the relationship of the אבות הקדושים with “Torah,” particularly in its manifestation as a body of הלכה, that is connecte…
Thanks for listening to it Menash I really appreciate it and ofc commenting!
TO answer your question, I may not have been clear but I think you have it backwards...acc to ones that say they voluntarily kept the torah the Q is why/how they decided certain ones not to keep, i.e marrying aunt or sisters in the case of Yaakov... the answer is that they only kept it in Israel and some mepharshim, explain that that is why Rachel died before they entered EY (she was the second so Leah was halachically/ correctly married to him based on halacha)...
Hope that helps!